Comments on: Are Web Standards bad for Business http://manwithnoblog.com/2006/12/30/are-web-standards-bad-for-web-business/ Gary Barber rants on user experience, and the controlled chaos of the Web Industry Wed, 25 Jan 2012 02:19:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Gary Barber http://manwithnoblog.com/2006/12/30/are-web-standards-bad-for-web-business/comment-page-1/#comment-40 Gary Barber Tue, 30 Jan 2007 13:15:19 +0000 http://manwithnoblog.com/2006/12/30/are-web-standards-bad-for-web-business/#comment-40 @Ben I could come back on that with, but if the work looks good and appears to be a quality product. How is the customer to know otherwise. It's not till it breaks at a later date (on a browser upgrade say) that we see the web standards based site (hopefully) is the superior. It does raise another question this post. Who pays for a standards based make over, the client or the web designer? @Ben I could come back on that with, but if the work looks good and appears to be a quality product. How is the customer to know otherwise.

It’s not till it breaks at a later date (on a browser upgrade say) that we see the web standards based site (hopefully) is the superior.

It does raise another question this post. Who pays for a standards based make over, the client or the web designer?

]]> By: ben Winter-giles http://manwithnoblog.com/2006/12/30/are-web-standards-bad-for-web-business/comment-page-1/#comment-39 ben Winter-giles Tue, 30 Jan 2007 12:35:09 +0000 http://manwithnoblog.com/2006/12/30/are-web-standards-bad-for-web-business/#comment-39 Could you even argue that you shouldn't even be selling web standards? Consider this. A top tradesman, say a kitchen fabricator. He would be known for his work quality. For the level to which his design integrity, his craftsmanship and so on represents when compared amongst his peers. Subsequently as a result of simply producing the best quality product, without making so much as a peep about it unless asked why. Now, he will become known amongst his peers for the work attributes, and his clients will ultimately appreciate that his work is above all, par excellence. So does he still need to say in his ads, or on his proposals "hey I do fantastic work and this is the detail as to why" or should he simply be known and continue to deliver astoundingly good products. Perhaps it's the other builders, who cannot admit to themselves that the way they do it, is the best and that they no longer need to really market that, as it simply is a matter of fact, rather than something they need re-inforcement on. (a behavior of professional maturity, which is gained from sheer length of experience) Could you even argue that you shouldn’t even be selling web standards?

Consider this. A top tradesman, say a kitchen fabricator.

He would be known for his work quality. For the level to which his design integrity, his craftsmanship and so on represents when compared amongst his peers.

Subsequently as a result of simply producing the best quality product, without making so much as a peep about it unless asked why.

Now, he will become known amongst his peers for the work attributes, and his clients will ultimately appreciate that his work is above all, par excellence.

So does he still need to say in his ads, or on his proposals “hey I do fantastic work and this is the detail as to why” or should he simply be known and continue to deliver astoundingly good products.

Perhaps it’s the other builders, who cannot admit to themselves that the way they do it, is the best and that they no longer need to really market that, as it simply is a matter of fact, rather than something they need re-inforcement on.

(a behavior of professional maturity, which is gained from sheer length of experience)

]]> By: Gary Barber http://manwithnoblog.com/2006/12/30/are-web-standards-bad-for-web-business/comment-page-1/#comment-11 Gary Barber Fri, 12 Jan 2007 00:27:10 +0000 http://manwithnoblog.com/2006/12/30/are-web-standards-bad-for-web-business/#comment-11 @Steve - This doesn't sell the product from day one does it. This will only really seriously occur when the mobile browser market stabilises. There are (taking figures from Mobile Interface discussions at WD06 and OZIA06) about 30+ different mobile/pda browsers. Now to cater for that market you have to do one of three things. <ol> <li>Work with each browser. Most of which don't use CSS really that well, think 1999-2000</li> <li>Do a simple text only narrow version</li> <li>Ignore it and hope the opera like mini browsers win the mobile war or we end up with iphone like browsers.</li> </ol> @Steve – This doesn’t sell the product from day one does it.

This will only really seriously occur when the mobile browser market stabilises. There are (taking figures from Mobile Interface discussions at WD06 and OZIA06) about 30+ different mobile/pda browsers. Now to cater for that market you have to do one of three things.

  1. Work with each browser. Most of which don’t use CSS really that well, think 1999-2000
  2. Do a simple text only narrow version
  3. Ignore it and hope the opera like mini browsers win the mobile war or we end up with iphone like browsers.
]]> By: Steven Hambleton http://manwithnoblog.com/2006/12/30/are-web-standards-bad-for-web-business/comment-page-1/#comment-10 Steven Hambleton Fri, 12 Jan 2007 00:15:02 +0000 http://manwithnoblog.com/2006/12/30/are-web-standards-bad-for-web-business/#comment-10 Wait until you get to design mobile web based on your clients existing content. I think you'll find you get a lot of business :) Wait until you get to design mobile web based on your clients existing content.

I think you’ll find you get a lot of business :)

]]> By: BogeyWebDesign http://manwithnoblog.com/2006/12/30/are-web-standards-bad-for-web-business/comment-page-1/#comment-4 BogeyWebDesign Sun, 31 Dec 2006 13:42:33 +0000 http://manwithnoblog.com/2006/12/30/are-web-standards-bad-for-web-business/#comment-4 It's hard to pitch the idea of standards compliance to business - true. But in the long run it's worth it for all of us. They key is to talk real, long term savings - lower bandwidth cost, less time to update/redesign, etc. I worked on a site that was table based and successfully fought to update it to (mostly) CSS, non (layout) table code. Download time and further SEO improvement - especially in a competitive niche - were the closers. It is difficult to get non-designers to see the value in something they (essentially) don't see - good XHTML and CSS. But if a little extra work will save us from nested tables 8+ levels deep and endless inline CSS, then it's worth it. Great post. It’s hard to pitch the idea of standards compliance to business – true. But in the long run it’s worth it for all of us. They key is to talk real, long term savings – lower bandwidth cost, less time to update/redesign, etc.

I worked on a site that was table based and successfully fought to update it to (mostly) CSS, non (layout) table code. Download time and further SEO improvement – especially in a competitive niche – were the closers.

It is difficult to get non-designers to see the value in something they (essentially) don’t see – good XHTML and CSS. But if a little extra work will save us from nested tables 8+ levels deep and endless inline CSS, then it’s worth it.

Great post.

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